Jesus Camp
I finally got around to watching Jesus Camp. I just finished it and I am speechless. Have you seen the movie? What did you think?
This is exactly the reason why we need a website like SCP. This just scares the shit out of me.
Speechless.
Oh yea, check out HBO's Friends of God while you're at it.
posted by Joshua Sager at
4:37 PM
12 Comments:
Hi Josh
I was reading on another blog about the movie Jesus Camp and some of the comments were saying how that movie is only about "extremists" and "dont get dissillusioned from that movie," etc. etc. But I really wonder why if you are a christian, that movie is bad. I don't get it. WHY NOT indoctrinate kids and brainwash them and shelter them? WHY NOT scare them away from Hell using crazy music and shouting? If you are a Christian and you believe that Hell is a bad place of ETERNAL suffering and burning and weeping and gnashing of teeth and all that stuff, don't you think that mind control in kids and being extreme is a small price to pay in life? I feel like the Jesus Camp people were crazy and weird--but at least they are like legitimately acting out what they believe.
I am mad kind of, because I feel like I have to defend this movie when I do think the people in it are crazy and extreme and I am not even a christian myself. I just think that criticizing "extremists" when you are a christian can sometimes just be a cop out and cover for your own doubts or laziness that you dont want to address directly. I know this, because I used to do that when I was a christian--separate myself from any extreme or fundamentalist christians--and I did it so I would feel better for being a half-assed christian. I may be the only one--and if I am the only one who did that, then you can disregard this post.
always love the site!!!!
marie
That movie scared me because my closest friend grew up in that crap. He was nearly in tears by the end of it. He concludes his experience as a dark time in his life and suggests that him moving to the other side of the country (Canada) was his only way out. (Since his Dad ran the church) I used to attend his church and when I came into disagreement with them I was removed of all duty and shown the door.
Anyone who isn't open for the discussion about the "other side" is scary to me. Creating extremists isn't "Godly" or righteous, its down right dangerous.
dude, a friend and i watched the movie the other day, and basicaly sat there with our mouthes open the whole way through!
i used to be in a church like that, and seeing it from theoutside is just terrifying!
marie's comment is exactly why those churches are still around, i get your point girl, but how far do those churches remove us from the real world? every person who subscribes to that kind of extreme fundamentalist christianity, is just another reason for me to stay as far away from the church as possible.
keep well josh, thanks for the new podcasts!
graham
london
ps. every time i think about going back to church i have a few more beers, till the feeling passes, i figure vomiting will be far more pleasant than sitting through a sermon :)
hey graham, I totally agree with you about the separation from the real world--I just feel that a lot of people use "extremism" to like make themselves feel better about their faith, rather than try to live in a new extreme--of like rejecting western imperialistic society, serving the poor,living piously, or preaching God. Seeing that movie disgusted me totally as it did you, but it also convicted me that I am not consistent in acting out faith wholeheartedly (I saw it when I was still a committed christian)--even though the people in the movie were scary, they still seemed consistent in what they were doing.
btw i really like your site graham!
hmmm i don't know about that friend, being consitent in beliving in miguided philosophy can't be a good thing can it?
we like to believe that we are acting on the convivtion of god, but although that can sometimes be difficult it feels so good to do that. so it is sometimes is just nicer for our brains to create our own god voice that tells us to do things that are easier or more comfortable.
like your site too friend!
The sad thing is that I know a few people that would see nothing wrong with the way they indoctrinate those kids into extremist beliefs. Scary.
Maria and jesusisforlosers, I have to make a case for moderate believers. You are right - when we lift our noses up at are more conservative bretheren like "look at us - we're so much more intelligent, hip, cooler"...whatever the case may be, we do it merely for our own ego gratification. But to say there's not a case for moderate belief is not quite reflective where many of us are at.
Folks like myself struggle between two worlds. Part of us is logically compelled by the scientific method-requiring empirical evidence before we accept something as true. There is, on the other hand, a yearning for the spiritual, knowing full well that we cannot prove the existence of God through empirical means but we cannot deny what we sense in our inner beings.
bruce
i really understand where you are coming from, and i think that most of the problems in the modern church come from unquestioning belief.
if we don't weigh up our faith with what science has come up with and make our descisions that way, how much is our fauth worth. basicaly what we beieve is someone elses blind faith.
if i did not still have something inside me that tells me that there is a god and makes me feel that i do want to interact with him, i would have given this up a long time ago. but at the same time i now find myself questioning why i have that feeling and where it comes from, because if i can't decide wether it's real or just something that was indoctrinated at childhood, then i have to stop feeling this way.
jesusisforlosers,
I too understand where you're coming from. I've heard people such as Matthew Alper speak about the "God part of the brain"-an evolutionary holdover where belief in an transcendant being/force helped man survive during bad times, and he gave me quite a bit to think about. I'm around Steve's age, so I suppose my belief system is not as flexible as someone in their 20's.
I could cite a few more reasons for belief that would seem rather impersonal, but there are two compelling reasons for me to hold on. There have been so many junctures in my life where if there hadn't been an intervention, I would be dead or significantly worse off than I am now. Also, in "trusting my gut", I come down on the side that there is a God.
Hardly scientific, but there it is.
This movie was probably one the most horrific things I have watched in a long time! Nothing but manupulation, and frankly everything I hated about church when I was a kid!
At 16 these kids will be nothing more than pathetic shells of their once supposed purpose filled selves. Its sick, sad, and unfair to feed kids the lies of religion at any age muchless their ages!
I think thats about as much as I can stomach to say about it!
Josh, we should have made that doc dude! How fucked up was that?
Bottom line (response to discussion started my marie), a seven year old should not be having those kind of emotional reactions unless they just got grounded for a month, or their favorite hamster just died. I myself have worked and been a 'part' of some charasmatic churches, and most of it is calculated emotional manipulation through music/mood/words etc. Now, I'm not saying that I haven't had some 'interresting' experiences in these places, but all to often there is no one there to bring a healthy balance to these situations. If you step back, you might as well drop some X and go raving. There really isn't much of any difference.
I think the other great thing about jesus camp, and friends of god for that matter, is that though not all of us could identify with all of the docterins (?) and practices, there was an awful lot that was way TOO familiar. You should check out jesus camp with the directors commentary, very interresting.
These two movies show us the true face of the churches greatest enemy. And anyone that doesn't recognize this, is currently IN their own jesus camp.
good times...
http://www.goodpersontest.com/
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