Happy Friday The 13th!!!!!
Jesus loves me
This I know
Because my belly shows me so ...
posted by Joshua Sager at
10:51 PM
Friday, April 13, 2007
Jesus loves me
This I know
Because my belly shows me so ...
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29 Comments:
so....are you saying that it's Jesus fault that babies in Africa are dying, and fat Amercian kids are ensuring a future insolin dependancy?
you are such a mysterious creature josh. Full of wonder (...ful irreverance, that is!!!)
Oh, again with the jokes...
You take "riding the line" to new hights. Or perhaps I should say, you told that line to go take a flying fuck a LONG time ago...and you're damn proud of it.
Well...good on ya mate.
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So why do you assume that Josh is blaming Jesus by posting a link to this video...
and I haven't talked with him at all... but maybe Josh is sickened at his own inattention to those deprived and Josh's (and mine) own lack of caring and concern for them. That's what I take away from the video... not that Jesus caused this, but that I am such a fat-ass and I think God has blessed me... since my belly is full.
Maybe I should be about sharing my blessings since I feel so blessed rather than sitting on my couch eating one more bowl of ice cream.
Wow.....that just brought quite a gut reaction. For me, it was just another blast at the 'God is in control' statement. Does Jesus love all these children? Are they precious in his sight? Thank you Josh, for another jolt to the system.
I'm in the middle of reading "God at War" by Gregory A. Boyd. Its basic premise is very relevant here: God probably doesn't control everything. Daniel 10:12-13 shows that God's purposes can be delayed or even thwarted by the enemy. That's what spiritual war is all about. God's will isn't always done, which is why we pray for it in the Lord's Prayer. So human suffering isn't God's fault, but the fault of his enemy. Blaming God for it is equivalent to blaming Churchill and Eisenhower for the things Hitler did.
Yeah you could see terrible suffering in the world like this and draw the conclusion that god is in some kind of battle with satan, but I think it would be more rational to really look at all the evidence and conclude that, just maybe, there is no god.
point well made steve...
but here's a thought (specifically for those that use this as a "No God" defense). To me, this underlines the very love of God. He has awarded us complete freedom of choice. Those children are a direct result of humans lack of love. If you would rather prefer an interfering God, who ensures that such atrocities never occur, where would His involvement end? He has given us the ultimate test of love, and for these unfortunate children, we (the global we of course) have failed miserably. In my opinion, it is actually a bigger cop out to say that this proves there is no God. Who ever said that life (with or without God) was to be free of suffering and pain?
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I don't think any of those kids ever had the freedom to choose anything.
First of all, i thought it was clear that those 'free' choices are less those of the suffering children, and more those adults in charge of them (parents, guardians, government...).
question: would we REALLY understand or appreciate what true love is, if you we did not have the examples of such suffering to compare it to?
Assuming that a power greater than us created all of this, can you truly understand how immensely complicated it would be to design? In my humble opinion, it's all together to big for our total comprehension?
Of course, if you believe that all of this (the world, life, all that jazz) was some kind of freak accident, with no real design or purpose...why do you care? Honestly, does it really matter what you feel for anyone or anything? People live, suffer, fuck, shit and then die. If there is no plan or order to any of this, their lives--all of our lives for that matter--become as meaningless as...lets say grass!
Why do we care? Why do we love? Is it to make ourselves feel better? Does any of this heart-felt concern really change the pain and suffering in the world?
God=Love, and that's why we should give a shit, and infect as many of those around us with it.
LOWEND... work with me baby... your digging yourself quite the logical hole here to dig out of....
...would we REALLY understand or appreciate what true love is, if you we did not have the examples of such suffering to compare it to?
I am so glad that children die of starvation and malnutrition so that I might know true love.
BUZZZZZ... try again.
Of course, if you believe that all of this (the world, life, all that jazz) was some kind of freak accident, with no real design or purpose...why do you care?... f there is no plan or order to any of this, their lives--all of our lives for that matter--become as meaningless as...lets say grass!
Hey Rick Warren Jr.... get your head out of your anus (said with love for even having the audacity to say what you truly think)... we've covered this ground before remember? No God does not equal no purpose or no love or no ethics. That's a pretty limited and baseless argument. Without God there are many reasons why people would still care and love and whatever else that societies do to thrive, grow and dare I say "evolve".
I guess I try look at these things in less selfish terms, and more global concepts of balance.
At the risk of rehashing that fun little topic of purpose (and trust me...I don't!!), I guess if by purpose simply exsisting, even if you are evolving, is enough for you...than peachy! I find that a bit dull, and well...meaningless.
But, hey "when in Rome", as one other great philosopher once said.
"Goulet!"
I think that everyone who sees this video should be hurt by our own apathy. And I think that particularly for Christians, this should force self examination and more importantly further action. If we are the Body of Christ and we mean the words to this song, than it is we that have failed.
Also I have to say that blaming a God or claiming that this somehow proves the lack of the divine puts food in the mouths of no one. It is only another distraction.
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Might I propose....I know the broken record I am -
Jesus died for all of the children, and went to heaven LEAVING US WITH THE RESPONSIBILITY TO GO AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR WORLD.
So I always ask - what the freak are we doing about it, and you say in response - what are we supposed to do???
Here is a shining example of something were supposed to be doing, feeding the little children of the world!!
So sit back, relax, and shovel another hamburger in your mouth, while you respond to my blog comment. Since this "is" what your doing about it. Your no better than anyone else. Thats the sick, honest, freaking truth of it.
Shefrog77-
You assume that we (and I) do not do anything about world hunger (Maybe it was the disturbing video...and your gut reaction). I know for me personally ... have fed MANY people in third world countries. In person, through financial gifts and sponsorships.
I think world hunger is the worst epidemic in this world today. More so than the need to save peoples "souls".
Might I ask ... What are you doing about world hunger right now?
You for one, should not be lecturing people about shoveling hamburgers in their mouths.
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Shefrog....
I love your take on what Jesus did. And as I read what you wrote, it made me look at it with fresh eyes....
Jesus died, went to heaven and left us with this responsibility. Yet... I think you would say that Jesus is all powerful, and fully capable of wiping out world hunger with the snap of his fingers... whether he was here on earth or in heaven.
And you ask us... or me... what am I doing to alleviate world hunger and starving children?
Isn't the better question (based on your view on it) what is Jesus doing about it? The answer that he went to heaven and left us to deal with the problem makes me kind of doubt Jesus' leadership ability and problem solving skills. Leaving us responsible was a pretty stupid thing to do. In fact, I would argue it makes Jesus worse than an absentee father... he just doesn't seem to care for the poor much since he is spending his days in his comfortable, no hunger, no tear heaven... while his little children starve to death.
However, Jesus's lack of action and his inability or unwillingness to help doesn't alleviate me from the burden of helping others in need. And I should and have responded at times. But the answer is more than just feeding a few children or sending a few measley dollars... it's a systemic problem. Like other global issues it requires world leaders to cooperate. This doesn't give me much hope... but at the moment I believe that will happen before Jesus actually steps in and does something about it. He's too busy sitting in heaven having a Big Mac and fries.
steve/shefrog - though I think your question regarding Jesus involvement (or lack there of) with the starving children (and I would argue that there is a laundry list of atrocities that could be substituted for this topic), is understandable, it doesn't make much sense (if we are using the bible as a viable source of truth).
God entrusted us with the world, and all living things within. He effectively handed over the keys to us (all mankind...not just christians!), and said: "Don't drink and drive son, and watch your speed. Good luck and have fun." So, excluding natural disasters, the deporable condition of the starving children (to include the horribly over-stuffed white ones) isn't really his fault, is it? I mean, Africa's various governments (or lack there of...)are ran by men, and they have made some really bad/selfish descisions. Of course this is only one element of the cause, I'm sure that many other countries and circumstances have (and still do) contributed. Ultimately however, it's still in man's hands.
So, what kind of parent would hand over conditioned responsibilty? In other words, if God was expected to come bail our pathetic asses out everytime we dropped the ball...what kind of parent would he be? What kind of spoiled brats would turn out to be (not that we aren't already!!)?
Sure, most of us do 'our part' to ease their suffering, but this is a very large and complicated problem (as most are), and we have a very hard time fitting such issues into our compartmentalized way of thinking...oh I know, I'll blame the guy that's even harder to figure out (and possibly even more distant) than this...
The way I see it. This whole life thing is a test of our will, our character. I truely think God wants to see what we're really made of. If we are REALLY worthy of his unfathomable and eternal love.
BUT using your rationale... what kind of parent would watch his little children starving day by day while sitting in their living room, ... and be in the kitchen with a stocked pantry cooking meal after meal after meal and conusming them... yet walk day after day past his children... yet neglect them and not feed them. What kind of parent is this?
If I could "bail my children out" of starvation then I am morally and ethically obligated to do so.. aren't I? We are not talking about "spoiling them"... we are talking about meeting basic needs. This type of parenting (not meeting basic needs if able to do so) is labeled as neglect... pure and simple.
So is your God unable to meet these needs or simply unwilling?
Not to mix metaphores...but I believe the correct answer is: to those children...WE ARE the parents. Think of God then, as more of a Grandparent in this scenario (and I'm honestly starting to throw up in my mouth a little with all of this metaphorishness...). So a grandparent has passed on their direct responsibility to their children, who are then in turn are left with the burden of responsibitliy to their own children. If they are good grandparents, they would not interfere with their childrens parenting methods.
To me, and I really believe this, God is showing us REAL love by allowing us to make free discisions over such things as our childrens fate, the state of our planet, and how we lead our own lives. If he swung by our backyard ever so often to pick up the slack we've missed, would we really claim full responsibility where it's been given?
I think, in the end, all we can do is try and properly manage that over which we DO have direct control, and possibly assist others in areas they are weak.
If there were no suffering/needy people in the world, would we still be as ready and willing to spread Christ loving example? It's a rather dark dichotomy, but I would argue that there is no true love with out true evil. They co-exist. The only question that remains, is who's side are we on?
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But lowend... you started the metaphors, I didn't...and you didn't answer the question...
Is your God unable to meet these needs or simply unwilling?
steve - I thought I did answer that, but I'll condense it to this:
I believe that God (whom no-one can claim, we can only seek to understand him better from our various perspectives) has enabled us to meet their needs.
It looks like Marie has been living out this form of love for quite some time (not meant sarcastically). We learn from our mistakes. If God didn't allow us to make them, how could we possibly ever fix them?
marie - though I greatly respect all of the various work you've done, it would be nice if you didn't throw that in everyones face as though no-one had never experienced anything. I have no need to share at this point the suffering I have witnessed and our taken part of. However, I would like to respond to your comments. Please do not mistake my accepting reality as disregard or lack of empathy. I too am greatly outraged at the sensless suffering that takes place every single day all around this world. For my part, I must then decide what that means to me, and more importantly how I will act apon it. Is blaming God going to change anything? hardly. Must I go to Africa to feed a hungry child, or is counseling a hispanic teen rape victim from L.A. enough? These are rhetorical questions that have personal significance to each and every one of us. If EVERYONE were to answer that call with love, then this entire conversation would be mute. But obviously the caring are in the minority. So it's not that God doesn't care, it's that WE (or everyone else, depending on how long your finger is) don't!
He has given us the ablility TO care. We were created in his image. God is love. Therefore we have at least an element of love within us. Which we can either choose to feed, or ignore.
That's love.
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marie - no apology nesassary, it's all good.
It is quite ironic from my perspective, that you exibit more Christ-like behavior through your charitible actions, than far too many christians (not that being good to people is ALL there is to being a christian...). But please don't let that affect your firm belief system. Far be it from me to attempt to change your ways ;)
I hear what your saying about God. But I think it's less about him relishing in our freedom of choice it self, but more when we choose to make positive descisions. And in my humble opinion, even a proclaimed 'non-believer' (for lack of a better term...because I hate that one; everyone is a bliever in something!!) as yourself can cause God to rejoice at your positive free choices.
Then I will take that to mean that you think God chooses to not personally meet the needs of the starving children of the world...
Jesus told the story of Lazarus and the rich man. God let Lazarus go hungry and die, too, just to get a story for His new book. In fact, the dogs that licked his wounds seemed to be the only "christians" in the bunch.
C'mon...
steve - why do I get the feeling like you're playing word-games with me?
So, here's my final answer (because obviously Josh has posted a plethora of quality material that warrants our undivided attention), God has chosen to let us handle our own business here on earth. If and when he does decide to intercede, is completely at his own will and disgretion, and therefore none of my direct concern...unless of course I'm asking for it. But this isn't his problem, it's ours. We screwed it up, not him, so why hold him accountable?
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