Jesus Juice
A couple months ago I brewed my own beer. I finally put labels on the bottles.
Let me know if you want a bottle or 2,3,4,5,6?
Let me know if you want a bottle or 2,3,4,5,6?
posted by Joshua Sager at
5:20 PM
Tuesday, June 05, 2007
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25 Comments:
How much are you charging for the beer?
josh - i'm all about bringin the funny bro, but I've got to call the old blasphemy card on this one.
You've seen my gut, I love beer as much as the next guy, but don't mix your Jesus issues with your drinking. There's really no excuse for that.
sorry to be the wet towl in the room, but I love you (as a christian brother...) and with full regard to the log wedged in my eye-socket, I gotta let you know about this splinter bro!
...I would however still love to try some!!
It's not called "Jesus Issues"... it's called Jesus Juice!
Oh... and you are the wet towell.
Lighten up and go give a way a car at your church next week. That'll make you feel better.
come on bro, no need to get personal. You haven't hurt my feelings, to be honest you haven't even offended me... But when another brother has sinned, is it not our duty to speak to them in love? I would just like to hear how you can justify using Jesus name to promote drunkeness?
Look, I grew up in Germany, and have a huge love for the fine frothy brew...
But drunkeness is a sin (and josh knows i'm no stranger to that, so this is not me on my high horse) and that's just a biblical fact. So showing Jesus hitting the beer-bong...I guess I just don't see the funny.
Call me the wet towel, but at what point do we call out blasphemy these days, or is that just old to fashioned?
Bottom line...your life, your blog, do whatcha want, but as you still claim the name of Christ (at least I think you do), I gotta call you guys out on this one.
Lowend... if you think what I said was "getting personal"... you have no idea.
But your giving away a car at your church "in Jesus name" was as blasphemous as anything I've seen a church do in a great while. Or your hero, Rob Bell selling his sermon series on the web as a subscription service... pretty blasphemous in my opinion.
But I am not justifying the "Jesus Juice"... I am saying take a look around you at things that should really, really upset you. Take a hard look at the church you attend and the blasphemy there that is couched in "loving others" or "loving Jesus". To me the beauty of "Jesus Juice" is how it draws out guys like you to choke on something that's really insignificant in the big picture... while you easily swallow the shit that surrounds you.
wow - I think those are some awefully harsh words from someone who seems to spend far more time pointing fingers than ...
I've never claimed to be apart of a 'perfect' church (there is no such thing), and without re-hashing the car-situation, I strongly stand behind the practice of giving away that which we have in abundance to those who are in need (the church made 0 profit from that event). And the last time I checked, Podcast subcriptions are free...just as your own SCP podcast.
As I understand it, blasphemy is when the name of God is taken in vein (misrepresented, taken lightly or without reverence) or under false pretenses. In other words, you are saying that my church (which you've never bothered to attend) has 'alterior' motives behind our so-called 'Christ-love' we are putting all of our efforts and resources in to spreading. I am on staff, and there is very little that i am unawere of regarding this churches purpose/goals or motivations, so maybe YOU could enlighten me as to what blasphemous acts we are committing on a regular basis (since you obviously are an authority on the subject).
There is plenty that upsets me about the modern christian church, and that is precisely why I have chosen to invest my time and efforts in a local church to actually DO something about it...instead of just talk (write).
We are humans, and will forever fall short of God's will on account of our sinful nature. But that does in no way discount from genuine attempts to carry out our continuing mission to affect as many people as possible with the love of Christ. If you have somehow stumbled on a more noble or biblical standard at which we should operate...please enlighten us.
Ian...
Why are my words harsh? You are correct... I spend plenty of time pointing fingers. I have no problem with them pointing back... I just think you should be more concerned with real problems within the church than some nutty guy (sorry Josh) who decides to make a picture of Jesus with a beer bong. Seriously, Jesus loved to party... read the gospels lately? I am certain he tied one on... and I know he supported heavy drinking by keeping the party going at the wedding at Cana.
And check it out...Rob Bell's website offers his message series for a subscription fee. I think that's BS for a pastor to do. I think it's BS for churches to sell crap. Money changers in the temple ring a bell?? But that's another discussion.
I never said your church regularly commits blasphemous acts. I suggested that maybe you should seriously give thoughts to the blasphemy of things that occur in your church that you are blinded to... giving away a car is BS (in my opinion) and the car wasn't given to a needy family... it was given to someone that entered their name to "win it". Had it been given to a needy family, then we'd have a different situation.
Yes, I am an authority on blasphemy within the church. As a staff member of churches like yours (not yours of course) I can pretty much tell you the way things work. Things haven't changed and some day you will tell me why you left this church b/c of some reason that you discovered that just wasn't right... it's why you left the last church and the church after that (if I recall you've bounced around a bit - but maybe I am wrong - again). Guys like you (possibly not you) get enmeshed in your churches (and churches take advantage of that)... and I think that's unhealthy.
And if you say ONE MORE TIME... that you DO something and I DON'T (since I only write)...
That's just LUDICROUS!
steve - still not quite sure how Jesus made drunkeness alright, just because a party ran long, and he facilitated it with some holy juice, does not explain away the whole drunkeness being a sin part...
My bad about the Rob Bell thing, I didn't know about that, I've only ever subscribed to his churches and NOOMA's free podcasts.
I have been a long time appontent of how far to many churches seem to sap the very life out of their volunteers and staff. I don't even think they mean to do it, but because it's usually the few doing the work of the many, people just get burnt out. As to my church-skipping, at Saddleback, I had the "hey guys I'm heading off to Iraq don't forget about me...and then, Ian who? when I got back" situation...which pretty much ended our courtship. But most of my other church "bounces" have been more due to geographical reasons than anything else.
I guess I would love to hear what you think the point/purpose (if any) the modern church is today.
And lastly, I appologize for judging you based on my perspective of your action/inaction.
Kind of just kidding on Jesus supporting heavy drinking... not very good scholarship there... but he liked to party according to the Gospels (and eat!!)
Churches perpetuate burnout - don't excuse them... I have been a part of that from both sides. I regret RUINING very good people in the process b/c of the need to build my kingdom and ego. Pastors should be stoked that anyone ever shows up to be involved... and on the other side, if there are not enough volunteers to run something, then that something isn't needed. Cut it. (I think of children's ministry and the constant begging for volunteers for that "precious ministry"... if it's so precious then why do we have to beg??)
Sorry about the Saddleback thing... but it's the "what have you done for me lately syndrome in churches". Bummer huh? Mine was "I need to go to heal from shit" and people said I left fellowship and then ceased being my friend (not all I might add) w/o the agenda to getting me to attend Sundays. "We miss you" they say... and what they mean is "we miss you coming to the four walls on Sundays". Invite me to your house for dinner if you miss me so much. I guess the bottom line is I didn't miss them that much... or as the saying goes, "We just weren't into each other".
Certainly I don't presume to know why or why not you left the churches you have attended... my bad at an attempt to psychoanalyze.
I don't take it as "judging me"... you are free to express your opinion and I know you can take me dishing it back at ya... I just get tired of that one of me not "doing anything".
I will answer your question later... possibly on a blog. Been thinking of that lately... maybe time to go public.
I'm with lowendaction.
Thankfully for Josh, being juvenile isn't a sin. Treating the name & character of Jesus contemptuously or frivolously still is, no matter how out-of-date the concept is considered.
Still, I'm sure Josh will see the funny side on hearing that I've used Ashley's picture for an equally amusing purpose.
You know what Sheildsy... you can say anything you want about Josh and I... but you cannot and should not EVER bring our families into it.
You are offended at a picture of a man that is not even Jesus, but a popular caricature of a man commonly known as Jesus drinking a beer from a bong. What you are insinuating here regarding Josh's wife is not just in poor taste... but way, way over the line.
The two are not even the same... whatsoever. Any attempts by you to justify your comment would be asinine. You should apologize to Josh and to his wife.
On one hand you claim maturity by stating that Josh isn't... then you prove what an immature, sexist, hypocrite you are out of the other side of your mouth. Good job asshole.
Thanks for proving the point I wanted to make so wonderfully Steve.
Glad to see that there are still some things that people on here still consider sacrosanct. Anything that would even insinuate sullying the name of someone we love is deeply offensive and way, way over the line. I agree. [By the way, whatever insinuation you've read into my comment is entirely in your head because my statement - as well as being untrue - doesn't actually say anything in particular].
I would be just as upset if someone had used my wife's name her name or her picture in an inappropriate way too. You know what, I happen to feel the same way about the person of Jesus.
I am sorry ... sorry that it takes such a dumb tactic to make people who do such crass things to realise how much offence they cause.
Josh, you can say whatever you want about me and the church and Christians, but you cannot and should not EVER bring the down the person of Jesus.
But we should look on the bright side: at least it's just the name of Jesus Josh's slandering, not Mohammed.
It's not the same thing at all.. and it doesn't prove your point one iota. I knew what angle you were getting at Sheildsy... it's not like your attempt at a point was lost on me. But it is not comparable or even in the same realm.
Thanks for proving how assanine you really are. Thanks for attempting to back off what you said (and I believe meant) and now make it a point. Good backpedaling... if you were in the U.S. you could run for president.
Using a public figure and parodying him or her is not against the law...it can be in bad taste yes... but against the law NO. Jesus is a public figure. Many people parody religious or political figures and you either like it or not. But to bring in our personal families on this is completely wrong. It's a breach.
The difference b/w you and I (and Josh) is that we would NEVER and have NEVER attacked or made a disrespectful comment towards the families of those that visit our site. If YOU comment here, then you comment at your own risk. We wouldn't have done what you did... even to prove a point (which you didn't b/c it is apples and oranges).
Also, you hide behind a screen name and personna that doesn't provide vulnerability at all... and then attack our vulnerability and transparency as we share our lives. Sure we open ourselves up to pricks like you when we do it... but I thought you were better than that Sheildsy to go there.
And.. I still would ask that you apologize to Josh's wife. You did say you were sorry... but that's not an apology... and I would completely agree... you are a sorry, sorry person.
Better yet... why don't you go ask your wife what she thinks about Josh's picture of Jesus, and what you said about Josh's wife? Certainly I think she will be able to explain the difference to you.
There's no back-pedaling going on ... I endorse what I said and the way I chose to say it. It was left deliberatly ambiguous so that any connortation you want to put on my statement is entirely in your own head. What I actualy said about Josh's wife is incredibly innocuous in fact.
My point is valid ... we just don't like it when some things are brought very close to home. The person of Jesus is very close to home for me and for many others. Blasphemy isn't just some high-brow religious & theological concept. It's about the good reputation of someone very dear to us.
You see Jesus as just another "public figure" - I don't. He's far far more than that. On the other hand Josh (and Ashley) really are just public figures, out of their own choosing as well I might add.
My wife's comments: ... Ashley's just another person ... anything that libels her isn't in the slighest way comparable to libel Jesus. She didn't think my comment was at all distasteful anyway. She just can't understand why on earth Josh would want to produce a beer and call it Jesus juice in the first place. What motivated him to do that ... there's nothing edifying, wothwhile or even amusing about it? The only reason she can think of is to get a negative response anyway. [So guess me and lowendaction took the bait if that was the case]
Guess that means we're both just sorry sorry assholes.
I guess I misunderstood you. You didn't mean any harm by what you insinuated then did you? My bad.
So are you saying you were going to take a picture of some chick (who isn't actually Ashley) downing a beer from a bong and slap it on a beer and call it "Ashley Juice"? Is that what you were saying you were thinking of doing?
If that's the case... I don't think Josh (or Ashley) would have a problem with that.
Josh... what do you think? If that's what Sheildsy is talking about... that's not a problem is it.
I mean that's what we are talking about here aren't we? Josh taking a picture of some guy that's not even Jesus, calling him Jesus and naming a beer after him. All sounds pretty harmless to me.
Oh and one more thing... what "good reputation" of Jesus is destroyed by Josh's beer label?
If Jesus' reputation can be hurt by this then he didn't have much of a chance in the first place.
Get real...
Nice back-pedaling on the beer label by the way. It's not the real Jesus and any similarity is purely coincidental ... oh, silly me! Thanks for clearing up the confusion. In that case it's not blasphemous at all.
It's very sweet of you to defend your friend so vociferously. He obviously means a lot to you.
The "if God's reputation is so fragile that it'll be harmed by [insert your blasphemy] then it can't be much of a reputation" argument is the bog standard blasphemous defense. Once that has been shown to be assinine it's normally follwed by the line, "Why did God even say we can't dis His name anyway ... is He so insecure"?
The reality is that God didn't introduce the blasphemy law for His benefit. In common with all the commandments, they are there for our benefit.
Some of the stuff Josh has posted is truly choking and upsetting ... I hate to see Jesus being portrayed the way He is being. Jesus may just be another historical/pulic figure to you guys, but the relationship I have with Him is personnal. You get that for Joshs' relationship with Ashley ... why can't you get that for my relationship with Jesus?
You seem to be getting very hung up on what the possible "amusing purpose" of Ashley's picture was. The truth (whether you choose to believe it or not) is that I had absolutely no specific purpose in mind. It's called making a point ... that Ashley's name & reputation is very precious to Josh, that even the suggestion of it being used for as an object of amusement without his consideration is deeply upsetting. I'm very happy for you to let your imaginination run away with itself, but that's your problem not mine.
I love it when people come in here and take a big ol' crap on someone and their family, and then say, "that's your problem, not mine."
I believe the Jews crucified Jesus for blasphemy, shall we do the same to Josh?
But really, shieldsy has proven himself to be a troll several times over, so I don't think we should take anything he says seriously. He (she?) has no credibility.
Hello, I have to say this little post seems to have brought out the worst in people.
1) Steve, Ian didn’t say anything unexpected did he? Your response seems a bit brash. Whatever else there is to say, he really does seem to sincerely care about you. Doesn’t that mean anything?
2) Josh, you stole my wife’s idea. She took some bottles of wine I made a few years ago and put “Jesus Juice” labels on them. And it makes more since as wine man! If it hadn’t been crap and turned into vinegar on me I’d propose a trade.
3) Lowendaction, you certainly have one thing. I don’t buy Steve’s… It’s not Jesus… just a contemporary western icon - argument. It is obviously intended to be Jesus. Yeah Jesus would probably be more upset about other things but when a thief says, “yeah but that guy is selling crack” it doesn’t all of the sudden make thief a non-issue.
4) Shieldsy… The family really? That is harsh. I made a mistake on here like that once and have been feeling like crap ever since. Sometimes it is easy to blurt things out under the anonymity of the blog world but we have no excuses for that behavior.
"I love it when people come in here and take a big ol' crap on someone and their family, and then say, 'that's your problem, not mine.'"
If you love that, then pack your bags and start heading east, 'cause have I got the church for you.
:D
Dammit, Josh, you have GOT to put an RSS feed on your page. I missed this whole thread (and a great opportunity to bring out the worst in me).
HaKohen...
RE: Ian (lowend) and I have talked offline. We're cool with each other... and it does mean something.
RE: It’s not Jesus… just a contemporary western icon - argument. It is obviously intended to be Jesus. Certainly it is... but it isn't. It's someone's idea of Jesus and I think that is a bit of the point. The fact that someone is offended by something an icon is doing or is being portrayed as doing is silly in my opinion... but of course Sheildsy and I disagree... especially him bringing the family thing into play. He actually made no point at all except.. well... I've already said it.
RE: Wine Idea... Michael Jackson ruined that one for you didn't he??
DORSEY: RSS feed... for some reason it hasn't worked right... we'll try again.
Josh, I’m made beer a few times before and it has always been terrible! No matter how many wine snobs there are out there blabbing on and on about the intricacies of wine... beer is just as complex. And beer is much harder to do well.
How did your work out – really? Could you compare it to something else? Don’t worry if I’d tried the comparison before: I have!
I wrote, "I'm made beer". That should be "I've".
Then again, maybe I meant "I'm made of beer" and in that case perhaps it is just a Freudian slip.
I want a couple bottles!
if Jesus made Josh a musician that could actually write a decent song that people were interested in, perhaps he wouldn't be so angry at Him. dont blame Christ for your own mediocrity, Joshy.
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