Stupid Church People

A Pastor's Confession

2008-05-07T23:05:00.000-07:00

So you come to church on a Sunday morning.

It is time for the message and the pastor stands up and says,

"Good morning. Today is going to be a little different. I don't have a message or sermon prepared, but I thought maybe I could just talk to you about some things that have been troubling me.

For the last two or three years, I have begin to doubt many of the things I once believed. It's not been so hard to hide these things from you. Since most of the messages I preach have to do with how to be a better friend, or how to serve others, or how to have a stronger marriage, or how to deal with difficulties... it's actually been pretty easy to avoid some of the things that trouble me most.

I stand up here each and every week and feel very inadequate to be your pastor. I love you as my friends and my community, but I have found myself doubting almost everything that we have written in our church's statement of beliefs. And I have been afraid of saying this because being a pastor is all I have ever known. It's what I love to do. And even if I don't believe some of these things, I want to believe them. But wanting to believe doesn't help me to actually believe. However, my desire for knowing the truth remains the same.

I am still the same man I was yesterday... well, except for one thing. I am finally being honest about some of the things going on in my head and heart. I certainly understand that you may not want me to be your pastor any longer. But what I am hoping is that I can stick around and we can discover these truths together."

What do you do??

What should the church do??

A Pastor's Ego on Display

2008-04-26T10:50:00.000-07:00

Some of you may remember David Trotter from our site in 2007. He was a pastor in So Cal who was giving away a car to promote Easter at his church, Revolution. If you go back and read the comments, you will see that Trotter was pretty much unwilling to join our conversation, yet instead chose to egg us on and tell us to "keep it coming" with our criticism and attacks, as he labeled them.

Well in light of recent developments, I'd be careful what you wish for David.

A few weeks ago, I received an email from an SCP reader that filled me in on what's been going on in David's life and church. Several people, close to the situation and church, report that Trotter has left his wife after having an affair with another married woman in the church whom he is apparently still in a relationship. He has resigned his position at the church and has moved on to another entrepreneurial venture.

Below, I've provided links to the sites that share the story. They seem fairly consistent and honest, but I will let you read them and draw your own conclusions.

Michelle's Ramblings
A Little Bit of Us...
Sharon's Daily Cup Of Life
RagamuffinSoul
Meanderings of a Restless Wanderer (A pastor at Revolution Church)

Since leaving his church and, from what I can gather, his wife only a few short weeks ago, David has not been a shrinking violet. On his personal website, he posted pictures of him and his new girlfriend with their children all together playing in the pool and hiking...just another new blended and happy family. On the site he wrote:

As I think about the season of life that I'm walking through, my heart is filled with hope, anticipation, love, peace, longing, and grief. May the photos that appear each day allow these same emotions to emerge in your heart once again as well.

When I saw these pictures (one with his girlfriends' head on his shoulder and another with his girlfriend holding his son), I was shocked. It was a bold and brazen display showing a lack of sensitivity for his wife of so many years. It was not only in bad taste, but it was also bordering on cruel and unusual punishment. (About a week ago, the pictures on the site were removed - so either a sense of decency crept in or possibly his lawyer suggested such actions might not be in his best interests moving forward).

I have thought long and hard about what I should say, if anything, about these developments in this man's life. I don't know David Trotter, or anyone in his family... so why do I care? Originally, I was going to write an open letter to David (much like the one I did to Ted Haggard) encouraging him and admonishing him to not lose heart in the midst of this season of life he is facing. Looking back on that letter, I think it certainly applies to David Trotter as well. I hope he will read it.

However, after seeing his personal site and this damaging attitude that he has displayed publicly on the world wide web, I just couldn't in good conscience muster up the decency. I am not sure what it is that occurs in the life of someone when they leave their family to pursue another relationship... but from what I have observed first-hand it is the ultimate in selfishness - call it temporary insanity. As I wrote in my journal recently about this very subject:

In meeting your needs at the expense of others needs, you have to "turn off" thinking about how your actions effect the other person. You might feel sadness or pain at hurting someone later, but in the moment of choosing what is best for you, you cannot consider the other person's feelings. There's a certain disconnect that occurs at that very moment.

Feeding of an ego at the expense of other people's pain becomes a vicious and destructive cycle. Once you venture down that path, there is no turning back. Things will never be the same again. David Trotter knows this first-hand now better than anyone.

At the same time, I believe that David (and again I speak from personal experience) in many ways, feels more at peace, fulfilled and happy than he has in years. While I am sure he is sad at the pain he has caused, there is probably a sense of freedom that has enveloped him in the midst of no longer having to live a dual life. I no doubt imagine that David feels that, in many ways, his life is better than it was prior to this coming to the surface. And on several levels that might even be correct.

His level of ego and selfishness, once hidden behind doing the "Lord's work", is now being lived out in the open for all of us to see. Even now on his personal website is this quote that speaks volumes:

“The mark of a great player is in his ability to come back.
The great champions have all come back from defeat.”

Certainly Trotter has shown that he is a great player. I knew that from the very first day I was introduced to him regarding the car giveaway. But, for even one moment, thinking that he was a great champion on any level in his prior life as a pastor is an inflated ego gone mad.

This story has captivated me since I heard about it. I can relate from so many angles. Mostly, I keep coming back to the Trotter I observed approximately one year ago on this site, and honestly, I wasn't surprised that it has led him to this point. However, I am a bit surprised at how he has reacted to it.

There's no judgment in these statements. Just an honest opinion from years of observations.

What guys like Trotter don't understand is that although I am critical of pastors and churches in my writings here on SCP, it's because I feel I often know them better than they know themselves.

David, I am almost certain you are reading this and I want you to know and believe this - the Stupid Church People site was created by guys like you for guys like you. Take your mask off and stay awhile. You are welcome here anytime...just check your "pastor ego" at the door.

NOTE (4/28/08): An email from a reliable source informed SCP that the reason the pictures were taken down from Trotter's personal site was that the woman had ended the relationship and returned to her family.

God Bless You.... Bitch!

2008-04-10T00:45:00.000-07:00

True story:

While standing in Home Depot last Sunday afternoon shopping for a new tool box, a couple was standing behind me talking. For whatever reason, maybe it was the way they were dressed, I don't know... but it struck me that they had most likely just come from church. I can't explain it, but my seventh sense told me they were church people.

As they moved down the aisle away from me, the church lady inadvertently bumped into another woman standing in her way. This woman reacted (or over-reacted I should say) and said something to the effect, "Look out where your going! Can't you say excuse me!" The church lady responded, "I didn't have the chance, but I am sorry". The grumpy woman replied, "Whatever!"... and proceeded to huff down the aisle in my direction.

At that moment, the church lady's husband blurted out "God Bless You! Have a nice day!" in the most condescending, patronizing way.

To me, the way he used it was much more offensive than any other way he could have chosen to take God's name in vain. He would have been much less of a hypocrite had he just gone ahead and called her a bitch rather than using God's name to communicate that same sentiment.

Certainly the grumpy woman acted like a hag, but I am most certain that the church lady's husbands name was "Dick".

No Going Back

2008-04-06T23:59:00.000-07:00

How do you pick up the threads of an old life? How do you go on, when in your heart, you begin to understand, there is no going back.

There are some things that time cannot mend. Some hurts that go too deep…that have taken hold.

~Frodo, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King

I just thought this quote was very poignant and powerful... and also true for me on many levels.

Happy 3rd Birthday SCP

2008-04-01T09:04:00.000-07:00

Stuff in My Head (2)

2008-03-28T21:57:00.000-07:00

Ok... so what I am hearing is that no one can agree. And it's more than a disagreement on something inconsequential... I mean the discussion in the comments section of my previous post are pretty damn heavy.

I write that my faith has been declared dead on another blog, and everyone proceeds to comment and muddy the faith waters even further.

You would think that the Bible would be pretty clear about how one is to be certain of something as important as eternal life. Does it just boil down to a matter of opinion based on one's interpretation of scripture (as defined by the multitude of denominations that abound)?

Seriously...the Baptists don't agree with the Methodists who don't agree with the Lutherans who don't agree with the Catholics who don't agree with the Church of Christ who don't agree with the Seventh Day Adventist who might even be considered a cult...depending on who you choose to agree with.

To be honest, the stuff in my head tells me that it's all bullshit. We don't really know definitively about the subject. Seriously, I give up. It'd be easier just to go back to church (any church will do really) and believe everything they tell me. At least faith was simpler when I didn't give a damn.

My Faith is Dead (I guess)

2008-03-23T19:30:00.000-07:00

This from Josh S. (not Josh Sager - at least to my knowedge) over at Metalutheran:

I found the link at the site, Stupid Church People. It is the blog of two pastors who started off making fun of all the silly crap in evangelicalism, eventually despaired of the silliness, fakeness, and hypocrisy of evangelicalism, left the church environment entirely to find more authentic spirituality, and ended up renouncing the faith altogether. Read this post and realize that the very things this pastor is talking about eventually killed his faith. I find this stuff fascinating because in my opinion, evangelicalism is deadly. Yes, millions grow up in it just fine, learn to know Christ there, etc. But there are many who get caught in the eddies of everything wrong with it, and it is in those vortices that anything and everything that would incline them to pay attention to anything called "Christianity" is sucked right out of them.

And some comments:

John: ...didn't those two pastors endanger their faith when they created a blog to mock their brothers?

David: Not everyone who lives through kooky fundamentalism turns out that way. Those guys chose that path . They may have lived previously among the Stupid Church People , but now as the Stupid(er) Non-Church people I can't imagine how they think they're better off....

I sometimes wonder if people like these guys were always in the back of their mind looking for a way out and their focusing on the idiotic aspects of evangelical culture was the way they justified their leaving ? If you can demonize your former community then it's much easier to leave....

I realize that I sound like I'm angry at them (by calling them Stupid Non-Church people) and I'm really not . I'm heartbroken . I'm angry at the evangelical weirdness that gives people the nudge towards God-hating and I'm angry at the God-haters (the Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens types) who so readily supply them with slick , superficial "reasons" for why they are right to reject everything about Christ...

Finally Josh S. comments: ...they think they're better off because anyone who changes his mind about anything thinks he was better off than before, since if he were to think that his previous beliefs were better than his current, he would still hold them.

In any case, right when they left the church, there is still genuine faith expressed in those blog posts. What you see, though, is this belief at the same time that the Church, Christianity as such, strictly identified with megachurch evangelicalism, has "failed," so the authentic way of following Jesus is to be found outside of it. So they left. And died a few months later. Even in the worst of that evangelical circus, there is still something of Christ. But alone, you have nothing.

-------------------------

So I've visited the site and left a couple of comments of my own, but I thought I should share this over here and let you guys in on it. Initially I was a bit defensive at some of these comments (hate when I do that knee-jerk thing), but its a good thing to read what others think you are representing.

As I told them... I am not declaring anything about my faith publicly on this site. I continue on this journey. I just enjoy sharing it publicly on the web. Certainly Josh S. (again not Sager) and his friends are free to comment on this site and declare my faith dead if they like. Church people make those types of determinations all the time based solely on limited information and externals...and Josh's flavor of church people are just like all the rest when it boils down to it... even if they don't think so.

Stuff in My Head (1)

2008-03-06T16:04:00.000-08:00

When the facts and your knowledge/experiences don't match up with your beliefs... you either bury your head or change your beliefs. To believe otherwise in the face of the facts is to be at best, in denial, and at worst, delusional.

Back to Earth

2008-03-05T00:22:00.000-08:00

Well first, Jeff goes bye-bye.... again. No surprise there (although he claims it wasn't his fault, I personally think it was completely his subconscious acting out.... again).

Then, the ever insightful Zeke says "Adios".

And next, I read that Dorsey is thinking of shutting down, but he does a head-fake and proceeds to post - but who knows for how long.

So here I sit after a month of not posting understanding that shutting up might be a blessing to some, but I am nowhere near done. If I ever was really honest about the things running around my brain, this blog might go to the next level. Trust me, I am working on it, working on me, working on my life... and seeing things much more clearly than I did even three months ago (not to mention three years ago).

Why? Because of one word.

Disconnecting.

I think disconnecting can be a very healthy thing for some people. It has been for me. Let me explain...

Prior to leaving the church, I was very connected to that community of people. Prior to experiencing the breakup of my marriage, I was also very connected to my wife.

What I have found is that what I perceived as healthy connections were truly unhealthy enmeshments. To be enmeshed in something is to be entangled and intertwined.

The level of which I was enmeshed in the church and in my marriage was unhealthy for me. To flip a phrase, it caused me to not see the trees for the forest. I was so enamored of the big picture of things... that I missed the realities of the situation and what was actually happening in front of me. I didn't bury my head in the sand, I often buried my head in the sky.

Disconnecting has caused me to see things more clearly. It has brought me back to earth.

I've Become Them

2008-02-07T00:08:00.000-08:00

When I was a pastor, my "mission" was to "reach" the "unchurched". In my mind, my methods and strategies for doing so were relevant and cutting edge.

Now I am the "unchurched", and I realize how far off the mark I was back then.

I am coming to the conclusion that churches and pastors need to stop trying to be relevant. In doing so, most of the time they only end up looking silly.

The more they try to "reach" guys like me with their marketing schemes and "witty" sermon series titles, the more I just want to stay away.

The Evangelical Preacher

2008-01-27T22:39:00.000-08:00

Given, a man with moderate intellect, a moral standard not higher than the average, some rhetorical affluence and great glibness of speech, what is the career in which, without aid of birth or money, he may most easily attain power and reputation...?

...in which a smattering of science and learning will pass for profound instruction, where platitudes will be accepted as wisdom, bigoted narrowness as holy zeal, unctuous egoism as God-given piety? Let such a man become an evangelical preacher; he will then find it possible to reconcile small ability with great ambition, superficial knowledge with the prestige of erudition, a middling morale with a high reputation of sanctity.

Pleasant to the clerical flesh... is the arrival of Sunday!... He has an immense advantage over all other public speakers. The platform orator is subject to the criticism of hisses and groans. Counsel for the plaintiff expects the retort of counsel for the defendant. The honorable gentleman on one side of the House is liable to have his facts and figures shown up by his honorable friend on the opposite side.... the preacher is completely master of the situation: no one may hiss, no one may depart. Like the writer of imaginary conversations, he may put what imbecilities he pleases into the mouths of his antagonists, and swell with triumph when he has refuted them. He may riot in gratuitous assertions, confident that no man will contradict him; he may exercise perfect free-will in logic, and invent illustrative experience; he may give an evangelical edition of history with the inconvenient facts omitted;-all this he may do with impunity, certain that those of his hearers who are not sympathizing are not listening.

~George Eliot, Westminster Review, 1855

Blog-Chic Circle Jerk

2008-01-24T23:57:00.000-08:00

Over on Jeff's blog he writes:

I read around the blogs & I sometimes wonder if we're not just the blind leading the blind...

Then, to clarify in the comments, he adds:

...it just feels like we've identified the "circle jerk" that is US evangelicalism, and counteracted it with a blog-chic, post-modern "circle-jerk" of our own...

In some ways, we're just like the church, only in reverse. What's the point of that?

In response to Jeff I wrote the following comment. I think it could not have been more timely in fitting in with some of my thoughts lately. What do you think??

I respectfully disagree with you Jeff... and that's what makes this SO much different than the circle jerking church.

How many times have you disagreed with me, expressed it, us carry it over to an email conversation or phone conversation AND still not agree. Neither of us felt as if we had to leave or change or become something different for the other to accept or approve or fit in. It wasn't always fun, and at times this experience has been frustrating but I don't feel I would have ever received as much rope or grace or whatever you want to call it in the church. With all that I have expressed online I would have been eventually kicked out of my church, not allowed to teach any longer, etc. Now that's the bullshit in the church. The church doesn't envelope free-thinkers - it usually squashes them.

At a youth pastors retreat years ago, the speaker said something that is SO true (and SO scary)... he said that as pastors we couldn't afford to have a faith crisis b/c that could effect our jobs and incomes. The context was one of encouragement that this was one of the stresses of the job i.e. negotiation of our faith while leading others in negotiating their own.

This is such a trap... a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario. I felt I had to eventually leave the circle jerk church b/c all it was doing was propping up my weak faith. It wasn't making me stronger, it was making me weaker. Living life without the training wheels of the church has made me more balanced, more spiritually focused, more "evangelical" (in genuinely caring for hurting people sense) and honestly more truthful in my life and dealings with others.

I don't feel that the people I have met online are the church in reverse... they are the church "moving forward".... to borrow a phrase. Trademark anyone??

PING Back

2008-01-23T14:44:00.000-08:00

My good friends over at PING invited me on their show this week to expound on my previous post on "Moving Forward". Jump on over there and listen to Erik, Sharon, the PING crowd and I elaborate on all of our brilliant ideas. We are impressive!!

PING HERE!

Moving Forward

2008-01-19T23:11:00.000-08:00

That's my theme for 2008.

Moving Forward

I recently decided that in my personal life, I tend to look at the past as a bench mark for my future. I've determined that all that does is throttle me in the present... and leads me to missing out on good things in the now.

In regards to SCP, there have been many times over the past few months that I wasn't sure if I wanted to keep going. It's taken me a while to exactly know what to write as we enter 2008. Now that I have taken a few weeks off, I seem to have a clearer direction.

I think that this theme is highly important for SCP. I am constantly amazed at how many people still visit this website and the number of new people that are still discovering this place and finding it to be thought-provoking, encouraging and comforting.

Many, many people sit in church each and every week and feel completely alone for any number of reasons. They identify with this site. We need to keep this light burning.

You are a part of that.

Let's move forward together.

Life Beyond Death

2007-12-26T14:09:00.000-08:00

Being the difference in someone else's life, even in your death, is a precious and selfless act. Jason Ray and his family probably didn't realize what a difference they could make until Jason's tragic death.

I saw this piece on ESPN today and wanted to share it with you. It's powerful on so many levels. I hope you can take about ten minutes or so to watch it.

I have always felt that sharing my organs after my death was a very important decision and for that reason, I have made that choice for a number of years now. If you haven't signed a donor card or the back of your driver's license, consider that for a New Year resolution.

Take Christ out of Christmas

2007-12-16T07:39:00.000-08:00

I have a suggestion for Christians.

Please take Christ out of Christmas. Now.

I don't think he would want to have anything to do with it to be quite honest.

While you are at it, take Christ out of the word Christian. Why? Because you suck as a representative. You really do.

So starting now, if I was you, I would begin to work really hard at disassociating Christ from everything you hold so dear... and you might as well start with Christmas. Oh, and your church...that would be a good idea to.

He's really better off on his own without you.

A New Fan

2007-11-29T18:31:00.000-08:00

I haven't posted in a while, but I thought I would close out this month by sharing with you a comment I received on my recent post entitled, " Saddleback's "On Fire" Church Growth Strategy". It's from Ray Harris, the lead pastor at The Point Church in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Here's what Ray said:

You criticize what Pastor Warren wrote for a newspaper (internal or external)? Do you know him?

I don't. But when I was 17, he spoke at a youth conference in Fresno, CA and the Holy Spirit used his message to call me into ministry along with several dozen other teens.

When I was in the jungles of Bambu, El Salvador, I met a pastor in the village of 60 people who was leading his congregation of 12 thru the PDL.

The associate pastor I work with daily was greatly influenced by Dr. Warren and much of our church's success in reaching the twenty-something generation of Fort Wayne, IN has come from an PDC understanding we both embrace and use.

I am quite certain I could max out your blog with testimonies of how God has used Dr. Warren's sacrificial way of life and teaching to impact others - not to mention the major global emphases that he is leading right now.

Perhaps you might take a moment to weigh the advances of the gospel that could be credited to God's work in Dr. Warren against your view that he is promoting himself or Saddleback in a press release that was written in the heat of the SoCal fires.

This might bode well for you as we are promised that we will be judged as we judge. And the measure you are employing is going to take some significant work and effort on your part to weigh out.

You might want to start advancing the gospel by shutting down your blog and instead, sharing what Christ has done in your heart with your neighbors and friends. I say this with seriousness and not to start an argument.

I think you have a great deal of work to do to measure up to the level of judgment you are leveling.

Ray R. Harris
http://www.ThePointeChurch.Com

Now, I know I am gonna take some flack for what I said in response. I mean after all, he's a lead pastor and I'm nothing but, well, me. But dammit... well... just read what I wrote.

Ray... I hope you read this.

1) Yes. I know Rick Warren. I have known him for almost 20 years now. And I would consider him a friend and someone I respect. I am not sure how this is relevant (but you seem to). Let me ask you something... you criticize me, but do you know me?

2) If you read this post and my subsequent comments you will see that I give plenty of praise to the good things Saddleback does... especially during this crisis.

3) Excuse me, but are you really so ignorant as to think that just because someone does plenty of wonderful, amazing things in the name of God... that they also aren't able and capable of doing very self-serving things to advance their own name. The two are not mutually exclusive nor do they cancel each other out.

4) This is an age-old situation we have... but you find it ok to judge me and what I have done or not done based solely upon this blog. You do not know me personally yet you have concluded somehow that I don't share with my neighbors and friends, for example. Apparently, you have prejudged my spiritual depth. Often church people like yourself do those sorts of things...and this is largely why this site exists... to point out how stupid that is to do to someone. I don't fault you for this judgment... you are free to do so. I only point out that it weakens and silences your position.

Rick is promoting himself and his church. It's a press release for God's sake. You said it yourself. I personally think it to be somewhat (but not altogether) self-indulgent. You don't. Why can't we leave it at that?

No, instead you make it about judgment. Not just about what I wrote or said, but about me as a person. Certainly, I am self-serving a lot of the time. And I think Rick Warren can be as well on many occasions (all you have to do is attend his Sunday services and see how many times he mentions his books to know that). But I don't think either one of us is a pompous judgmental ass.... that's reserved for stupid church people.

The Nature of Belief

2007-11-06T11:50:00.000-08:00

The nature of belief fascinates me. The reasons why people believe what they believe occupies much of my middle-of-the-night thinking. Actually, the reasons I believe what I believe occupies that time, but you get the idea.

I think for some simple belief in God is enough. And the phrase "simple belief" is not meant as an insult. I wish I could be that person. Life would certainly be easier. For whatever reason, I have been blessed (or cursed) with a reflective mind. Some would probably say it is my sinful nature at work, and for many years I felt guilty about my doubts, but I gave up that type of guilt long ago.

But I look at the people around me who believe in God and those who are very active in their churches, and I wonder: When they lay their heads down at night, and everything around them is quiet, do they really believe as strongly as they say they do? Or do they just say they believe because they always have and therefore it's comfortable? Have many of them just gotten to the point that no matter what, believing in belief in God is paramount to actually believing in Him.

Ok, maybe this doesn't make sense... but to me there is an important distinction. And I think it's worth a few reflective thoughts.

Was Jesus a "Media Master"??

2007-11-01T06:26:00.000-07:00

In my last post, I spoke of how I felt one church used a recent crisis to market and promote its church and services. Now I realize that this debate has taken place time and again, but something came up that I thought might be worth talking about. Did Jesus use marketing techniques to advance his ministry? Heather seems to think he didn't and Marc thinks he did... here's what they had to say.

Jesus was not media-savvy. I'm not quite sure why his followers find it necessary. (Heather)

Now that's funny, you think Jesus wasn't media savvy. I guess that's why no one has ever heard of Him.

He was actually amazingly media savvy, He had the prophets publicize Him thousands of years before he was even born. He then worked miracles that were heard of across the world, even being recognized by the world leaders of his day,and then, in a stunt unprecidented [sic] in human history, He pulled a "David Copperfield" and arose from the dead starting His own religion.

Jesus wasn't just media savvy, He was the media master. (Marc)

So, is that what Jesus was about? Was the purpose of the recorded miracles to advance his cause? Was the purpose of his death to start and grow a world-wide religion with millions of followers and churches?

Was Jesus a "media master"?

My answer is "NO". My understanding of the Scripture is that Jesus didn't want others to know about his miracles, often telling the ones healed to "keep quiet". Also, his death wasn't part of his plan for a religion, it was the path he had to take for man's redemption. Man then took it and made it into a world-wide religion.

In my opinion it's man that takes the good things (or bad) in this world and spins them to advance their own causes. God wants to purely and simply advance the cause of love. Local churches want to grow in numbers so they market using gimmicks or press releases. God wants the church to grow by loving others...and the rest will fall into place. OK, so I sound like a hippie.

What do you think?

Saddleback's "On Fire" Church Growth Strategy

2007-10-28T01:12:00.000-07:00

Did you know that God brings calamity in the world so your church can pat itself on the back and grow at the same time?? At Saddleback Church, it's not called a disaster, it's called an opportunity.

Here's most of a recent church letter that went out from Rick Warren to people around our area this week through the Orange County Register. To be fair, I am sure there were many good things that this church was involved in, but to be honest, a lot of this letter makes me want to puke.

SADDLEBACK FIRES REPORT

Dear Saddleback Church Family,

Our campus has been spared, but with fires in Santiago, Modjeska, and Live Oak Canyons, so many of our members have been forced to evacuate their homes. So far, over 20,000 acres have burned here in our Saddleback Valley area.

Of course your church has been at the center of relief efforts once again. This is the eighth national or international disaster that Saddleback has mobilized for, so our disaster teams are quite organized and effective as first responders.

HERE'S A QUICK UPDATE:

* Our 120 acre campus has served as a Fire Evacuation Center, caring for and feeding people who had to evacuate their homes. We've also been taking care of a lot of pets and horses!

* We've also been a staging area and Relief/Refreshment Center for the fire fighters. Today we fed over 425 fire fighters on our church campus. These fire fighters are from all over California.

* Our ministry teams have been placing evacuated families into homes of members.

* We've sent out over 100 of our trained volunteer chaplains to care, counsel, and pray at other evacuation sites.

* On Saturday, many of our relief teams will head to the hardest hit areas of San Diego, as well as serving here in our local communities.

AN OBSERVATION
As the fires have raged this week, I've once again seen the undeniable importance and benefit of being a part of a small group. While people without a church home or a small group were sent to evacuation centers across Southern California (like our campus), I kept hearing story after story of Saddleback small groups opening their homes to fellow group members who had to evacuate. I also witnessed small groups actually fighting fires together when a group member's homes was threatened by fire!

THAT, my friends, is what small groups are all about! Your group carries you through a crisis! Right now I feel sorry for those who've never connected with a group. It's never too late to join one.

(For those of you who asked: Yes, Kay (my wife) and Saddleback staff minister Elizabeth Styffe were captured briefly on video by a local TV news crew. Members of our small group were assisting in saving the Styffe home from the fire in their back yard. You may have also seen many of our college ministry ("CRAVE") students working alongside firefighters on the fire lines.

THREE THINGS YOU CAN YOU DO
1. Continue to pray for all the firefighters. MANY are Saddleback members.

2. This weekend, invite your friends and neighbors to hear my message of comfort, "HOW CAN I LOOK UP WHEN I'M BURNED OUT?" I'll share God's way to handle every crisis, and fulfill the first purpose for your life AND KEN BLANCHARD, the bestselling management author of all time, will share his personal testimony and response after his house burned down this week in Rancho Bernardo.

3. The following weekend, Nov. 3-4, invite everyone to join us as we publicly honor all the Fire Fighters at our six services Please pass on this word.

Remember, God's purpose for your life is greater than any problem you'll face. "These trials are only to test your faith, to show that it is strong and pure. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold-and your faith is far more precious to God than mere gold. So if your faith remains strong after being tried by fiery trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world." 1 Peter 1:7 (NLT)

See you this weekend during 40 Days of Purpose.

Pastor Rick

The Fires of So Cal

2007-10-23T12:00:00.001-07:00

Well, I know to the outside world it seems that all of Southern California is going up in flames... and well, it kind of is.

At this point San Diego is obviously the worst, but we have had our own problems here in Orange County. If you watch the news, I live in Portola Hills and the fire that is being called the Santiago Canyon fire is happening all around me. We were under voluntary evacuation last night, but me and my neighbors just kept watch all night, with bags loaded just in case. Fortunately we didn't need to leave, although it came closer than we would have liked. In the image below, you will see my house (green arrow) and where the fires were burning closest to my house at 5:00 this morning (that's about 1500 feet from our community).

In this image, all wilderness on the left hand side of the picture had already been consumed during the night, and this morning the fire wrapped around and came in behind us. That's the worst thing that could have happened as far as we were concerned. But the firefighters showed up around 5:45 in about 20 firetrucks and made a stand along the road and in front of the houses on the right of the picture and saved the day for many homeowners. It never made it across the road and up towards our homes due to their efforts.

As I write this, the fire is still burning and moving out towards the canyons and up the face of Saddleback Mountain and planes are out dropping water to try and get things under control. It appears my family and neighbors are out of danger but there are plenty of homes in the canyons, and a really good friend of mine is unable to know if he has a home to return to or not.

I took the video below around 5:45 or so after the firetrucks arrived. The wind has really picked up and the blaze is moving fast at this point.

So that's the update. We are safe but smokey and our thoughts go out to many others who haven't been as fortunate. It seems the weather is going to give us a break and hopefully no other lives will be lost as a result.

Finally, I was thinking last night that it was my blasphemy against Prophet Timothy that might have brought this calamity upon my community. But since my property and life was spared, it must mean that I am in the clear.... for now at least!

Timstown Coming?

2007-10-21T09:02:00.000-07:00

Ok... it's official. I have no life.

As some of you know, Jason and I had a little run-in with the Gracehead group (http://gracehead.com) and they since have done the following:

1) Deleted any and all comments made by Jason and I.
2) Banned our URL's from referencing their site (that's the reason for the typed out URL above) and reported us as spammers.
3) Hid behind the skirts of Pam (no offense intended) who apparently is the only one of the group willing or allowed to talk to us. Trent (site founder I believe) and the prophet Timothy refuse to speak or mention us by name it seems.

In one of these early exchanges with Pam, I wrote:

One can't just declare that this is what God has told me, even if it lines up with their interpretation of Scripture and then say that no one else has a valid viewpoint or can question them and their beliefs. One can't hide behind faith alone and refuse to dialogue to gain a broader understanding of things.

There's a fine line between Jonestown and many churches in America based on this logic.

Well this ruffled her feathers a bit, and she claimed that there was no kool-aid parties being planned, but from the beginning of reading some of Timothy's "prophecies" I sensed something not quite right here. In my last note to Pam, I wrote:

It's troubling to me b/c I see that it (i.e. Timothy's writings, the Gracehead site) is a subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) form of control and manipulation of people. You are right, as long as people line it up with the Word of God they should be fine, but people are lazy. And I know, spiritual leaders take advantage of lazy people and begin to accept everything they say and do as God's word... and this happens in and out of the church every single week.

Believe it or not Pam, I haven't done the challenging and writing and confronting b/c I like to be abused either or that I like making people mad... I actually do care.

Ok, now back to the reason I have no life. I spent some time yesterday reading some of the writings of Timothy, the history behind it, and I find it fascinating. His epistle is entitled:

Letters from God and His Christ
True and Actual Conversations with God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, given to Modern Man for Modern Man's Sake
In the introduction, he tells a bit about himself and his calling:

My friends, I do not wish to replace, or take away, or add to the Holy Bible! Rather, these words and this understanding was given to Me by the Lord, and is for all those who have ears to hear. He alone may “add to” His Word for our benefit and to give us greater understanding...

I do not have any previous learning in Scripture, no degrees of any kind, nor have I attended seminary, nor have I received any teaching from any pastor, minister, etc., nor have I been to church...I must remain separate from those whom God wishes me to give His message to, lest I become biased toward a certain denomination...

And to this end, I am called:
1) To trumpet the coming of Christ to every corner of the world, in all manner of speaking and devices (internet, etc.).
2) To write God’s Word, which is a Final Testament to His glory, so those who have not heard might hear and those who have heard might come into a greater understanding of His will set forth in the Scriptures of Truth, the Bible...
3) To give this Word to the churches so they might receive correction and make themselves ready...
4) To be a “watchman”, that I might sound the warning, the blowing of the Trumpet, to warn all those who abide on the earth that the redemption of God’s children from the world draws very near, and God’s judgement must immediately follow!

At first glance his calling sounds like some church mission statements. But somewhere in there was this very troubling sentence, and I am sure you caught it too: To write God’s Word, which is a Final Testament to His glory...

This goes beyond your basic Stupid Church People status. If I read this write, Timothy IS writing a new and final testament of scripture, indeed adding to the Bible a new revelation.

So correct me if I am wrong and call me crazy, but my initial gut reaction may not be that far off. From what I can tell, what we have here is the beginning formation of a new cult...or, at the very least, the attempt at one.

I guess I am just fascinated by how things unfolded over at Gracehead. I am intrigued at what causes people to not question and just blindly follow a leader, his vision, his words and take them hook, line and sinker. As I said...there's a fine line.

Thus Saith Timothy

2007-10-20T08:15:00.001-07:00

So I know it's been awhile since I have posted anything...sorry about that. I have been using the time to get inspired and the way I most often do this is to visit other blogs, read and comment.

Recently, I hit the jackpot of inspiration.

One blogger that has been having some very good topics is Jason over on Losing My Religion. Jason has some unique views that I like to read and recently I joined the discussion on some topics.

Through these conversations I was introduced to Pam and found my way over to a site called Gracehead where she contributes. On occasion, Pam would mention a guy by the name of Timothy. She called him a prophet. Apparently Timothy is "modern day prophet" who writes as the mouthpiece of God to modern man. You can read more on his website.

I took a look at a couple of these prophecies as they were posted on Gracehead and couldn't believe that they were serious. These writings are a sad mixture of the King James Bible and nonsensical babble. He writes them in the form of letters (think Paul) but pretty much quotes a lot of fire and brimstone from the Old Testament (think Jeremiah).

To see if Timothy (or the Lord) had any sense of humor, I took a poke at the prophet and commented: "I think it's funny that the LORD still speaks to us in King James English". Almost immediately my comment was deleted and a rebuke was posted from the Lord (or Timothy - I am so confused) and here's what they had to say to me:

Steve, the Warning from the Lord I was commanded to give to Jason, I am now commanded to give to you...

Thus says the Lord: You have gone out of the way, thinking you stand. You do not stand, for you have stood against Me and My Word sent through My prophets...this is not to stand. You shall be brought low... you shall not be gathered. Neither will I hear you, for you have forsaken your Lord for your own way...such arrogant, high-minded children, continually misleading themselves and all those they speak to, never hearing the voice of the Lord their God.

Son of man, did you think I would stay silent?! Did you think that I, even I, would not blow the trumpet and alert the watchmen?! Therefore, it is fulfilled and shall come to pass in that Day, which is upon you, that the Son of Man, your Redeemer, shall say to you, “I never knew you”. For if you truly knew Him and He lived in you, then you would recognize those I send and the Word given them...yet you forbear, resting in the beds of false doctrine, even the doctrines of men. Therefore, you shall not be gathered, for I do not see of Myself in you, though you speak My words instant in and out of season. For you speak them seasoned with the salt I, Myself, have NOT given you. This you have received, in vain, at the hands of men. Know you not, that which is of God has salt in itself, and in no wise needs seasoning?... Get wisdom and receive understanding, and repent. Read more here.

He has more to say to me, but that's the gist of it. Officially now, I guess I am an unbeliever...or never was one. Whichever, it's a relief to have that solved. I always wanted to know and now, direct from the LORD'S mouth, through Timothy, in bastardized King James form, I have it in black and white... I am headed to hell.

We're So Smart We're Stupid

2007-09-27T13:23:00.000-07:00

In response to my last post and my short-term financial woes, there were some that offered encouragement and understanding, and others that suggested reasons for my predicament. Others offered brief sermons (one even with 3 points) and at least one gave me a serious, heart-to-heart pastoral talk.

Now I know this has always been a place of open dialogue and debate. I am one that often keeps the subject matter in theory rather than practice. And even when I wrote the post, my emphasis was on prayer as it related to my situation and not actually my financial needs. However, in the midst of all that, after many had passed by and offered their opinions ... only one person offered to help in a real, logical and practical way.

Thanks Pete. I appreciate the offer, but I will be fine.

I was right after all.

God can't help us... if we aren't willing to help each other.

God shouldn't help us... because we should help each other.

It's Not God's Problem

2007-09-25T09:09:00.000-07:00

Last night as I was paying bills, I realized that after I pay my rent there will be $400 in my bank account and I have $500 worth of bills left. That doesn’t include me needing to buy gas for my car or groceries. There are 11 days until my next paycheck.

Then I thought, about a year a ago I would have stopped and prayed about this situation. I would have asked God to somehow miraculously bail me out. But that would be stupid. Even if God could do something about it (which he can’t)... he shouldn’t.

This is my problem not God’s.